Amusement Park Next To View Talay 7

So Now We Know...

For a year or more we have been wondering what would transpire with the large prime - and up until now undeveloped - plot of beach-front land between the View Talay 5 and View Talay 7 condominium buldings in Jomtien, Thailand.

It's Going To Be An Amusement Park

I have it on good authority that the land has been purchased by a foreign company. It is already being cleared, all that remains is a small wooden house and a few trees. Plan call for a fun-fair type amusement park with rides.

How High? How Big? How Long Until Built?

No additional information yet, watch this space!

What Does It All Mean?

There should be no impact on condo-units on the Jomtien (South) side of the building. However, on the Pattaya (North) side:

• Depending on the height of the new construction, ocean-views may or may not be affected.
• Depending on the hours of operation, noise from the rides will surely be an issue.
• Owners of units on the North-side may be disappointed if they intend to live in their units, but those that intent to rent out their units may find many potential customers due to the entertainment next door.

At this stage, there are more questions than answers.

Clearing Land Next To View Talay 7

Another Depressing Bar

Went to Jomtien this afternoon to visit a bar that has recently changed ownership. They were having a party so I expected the place to be rockin'. Was more than a little disappointed, but more on that later.

Thais Don't Take Their Children To Pattaya

After the bar, I had a couple of beers in me and was feeling mellow. The sun was shining, surf was up, so I walked back along Jomtien Beach. I enjoyed the walk, and taking photos of the natives. The traffic was bad anyway, and a baht-bus would have been slower than walking. Thais from Bangkok descend on Jomtien in droves on week-ends with their families, tending to avoid Pattaya as they know that it not the 'upscale family resort' that it is advertised to be, no matter what the marketing people would have us believe.

Still Working On 11th Floor

I soon found myself close to View Talay 7, and went to take a look. They are still working on the 11th floor, just as I reported in my previous post on 9th. May. I include a satellite photo here from Google Maps.

View Larger Map

No More Fence, Clearing Land

Walking a little further, I was surprised to see that that the large plot of land beteen View Talay 5 and View Talay 7, the plot that was fenced and over-grown just nine days ago, is now un-fenced and almost completely cleared. There is obviously some construction planned. Will post photos later.

No Plans For A "View Talay 9"

I had already asked in the View Talay office if there was a View Talay 9 planned. They assured me not. I was told that View Talay 7 is absolutely the last project by the boss, as he is retiring. View Talay 8 is under construction further along Jomtien Beach, but this project is managed by his daughter, and I was told that she has no View Talay 9 planned. So if it's not another View Talay project, what is it? Let's hope it's a low-rise. I shall investigate further.

Now Up To 11 Floors

Two Floors Per Month

Did my Jomtien walk today. View Talay 7 is still growing, they are now working on the 11th floor.

I estimate that they are completing approximately two floors of external structure per month, and at this rate I predict that they will cap off the 27th floor by January 2009.

Completion 2010

Completion is scheduled for 2010. Thus they would have about one year for interior fit-out, which should be adequate considering that they supply units as a 'shell' with little interior work required.

Plot Next Door Still Overgrown

Still no development of the land on the north-side of View Talay 7. This is a large empty plot between View Talay 5 and View Talay 7. The plot remains overgrown and uncleared.

Jomtien Beach Nicer Than Pattaya Beach

It was a beautifual day today, and Jomtien Beach was looking nice. Thai people from out of town much prefer Jomtien over Pattaya, Jomtien gets far more Thai visitors than Pattaya. Most "Farangs" agree that Jomtien is much more attractive than Pattaya. However, it was low-tide while I was there and one potential problem was very apparent.

Dirty Great Big Sewage Pipe

There is a large-diameter waste-pipe running into the ocean almost directly in front of View Talay 7. The pipe runs from Thappraya Road across the beach about 100m south of View Talay 7, just to the north of the Police Box.

As far as I know, there are no sewage treatment plants in this area. They pump raw sewage into the ocean. So how far does the pipe go off-shore, and how likely is it that normal wave action - or a storm - will bring sewage ashore?

Still Climbing - 10 Floors

The 10th Floor

Seems that the complainants from Jomtien Complex have filed an appeal to the Administrative Court on the continuing construction of View Talay 7. However, the number of persons listed has shrunk from ten persons in the original complaint to eight in the appeal.

Construction continues, with many workers and three cranes still in daily operation. I would estimate that they are now completing 2-3 floors per month. As of today they have completed nine floors and are working on the tenth.

Meanwhile, the large undeveloped plot of land on the North side of View Talay 7 is still untouched. This parcel will certainly be the site of another large project in the near future, perhaps another condominium building. Alternatively a shopping centre, entertainment complex or cinema. None of these presently exist in Jomtien, so this is a definite possibility.

Click on the following links to read about the unlucky owners in View Talay 6 and the dirty great big shopping mall called Central World Pattaya which is being built next to their condominiums.

Decision Not Yet Final

The Fat Lady Is Still Singing!

From the English translation of the decision of the Rayong Court dated 16th. January 2008, it appears that the Court lifted the injunction ordering a halt to construction of View Talay 7.

Thus, construction is now allowed to continue. However, it seems that the original complaint filed by residents of Jomtien Complex last year remains undecided by the Court. Thus, this is not the final decision.

Meanwhile, back at the site. Construction is full speed ahead!

Today Is View Talay Day!

Latest news is that there is to be a court hearing today, 15th. January.

View Talay Day!

Rumour has it that the court has already reached a decision, and View Talay has won the case. However, this is as of yet unconfirmed. So watch this space for updates!

Anticipation

This decision seems to have been anticipated by View Talay. There has been some heavy equipment deliveries to the View Talay 7 construction site since early January, with increased work activity. They have stacked building materials on top of the 4th floor.

In addition, they have made some smart moves whilst construction was limited by the courts.

Firstly, they wrapped the site in enormous tarpaulins, which would have prevented any corrosion in the rebar. It's amazing to see construction projects abandoned here - sometimes for years - and left open to the elements. Rebar corrosion will weaken the structure enormously. NorthShore is a good example of this. It was designed as a hotel, but uncompleted due to financial problems and left as a rusting shell for years before Raimon Land purchased it, and marketed it into a "luxury condo" project. Those units are tiny, but have been selling at outrageous prices.

Secondly, while they could not build View Talay 7 higher that four floors they spent the time building interior walls, and even the balcony railings are in place for those four floors.

The Fat Lady Is Still Singing

However, it's not over yet. As above, the final decision of the court is unconfirmed. Of course the complainants from Jomtien Plaza may file appeals, and it is likely that View Talay will file a counter-suit against the complainants for costs and compensation.

Mean Sea Level

Seems to me that the whole issue of this dispute - the legality of View Talay 7 project construction - hinges on the definition of Mean Sea Level.

The 'professional survey team' turned out on 15th November as scheduled, and surveyed the site of View Talay 7 to determine Mean Sea Level.

Not So Easy To Determine

Quoting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_level as follows:

Mean sea level (MSL) is the average (mean) height of the sea, with reference to a suitable reference surface. Defining the reference level, however, involves complex measurement, and accurately determining MSL can prove difficult...

MSL means the "still water level" — the level of the sea with motions such as wind waves averaged out — averaged over a period of time such that changes in sea level, e.g., due to the tides, also get averaged out. One measures the values of MSL in respect to the land. Hence a change in MSL can result from a real change in sea level, or from a change in the height of the land on which the tide gauge operates.

In the UK, mean sea level has been measured at Newlyn in Cornwall and Liverpool on Merseyside for decades, by tide gauges to provide Ordnance Datum for the zero metres height on UK maps...

Mean sea level does not remain constant over the surface of the entire earth. For instance, mean sea level at the Pacific end of the Panama Canal stands 20 cm higher than at the Atlantic end.

And from Wikipedia:

The term above mean sea level (AMSL) refers to the elevation (on the ground) or altitude (in the air) of any object, relative to the average sea level datum.

So, is that all perfectly clear now?

How High Is The Ocean?

Latest news on View Talay 7 is that a survey is scheduled for tomorrow - 15th November - to determine mean sea level at the View Talay 7 site.

What Does Mean Sea Level Mean?

Well, sea-level can of course be easily determined at any one moment in time. And if the mean level over a period is required, then that too can be be easily determined by a series of readings. For the purposes of View Talay 7 construction, surely a one-day reading is insufficient. Sea level of course changes with the time of the day, the phase of the moon, the weather, the time of the year. Surely a mean level calculated over at least a year would be preferred.

Global Warming Caused The Problem

So how long are we to wait for this to happen? This process could perhaps take a year or more. And when completed there will surely be appeals anyway. View Talay can argue quite convincingly that at the time of their application for permits to build View Talay 7 - and remember that all the necessary permits were in fact issued - that mean sea level was lower at that time than it is now - due to global warming. This would also explain why all the other building in Pattaya/Jomtien zone were built so close to the ocean - and everyone saves face.

The Law Was Unclear

Thus, word on the street is that the Administrative Court will determine that the law in this regard - using sea level as a deciding factor - is unclear, and must be re-written. Since permission was lawfully given to build View Talay 7 using best determination of sea level available AT THAT TIME, then the construction permits already issued will be totally upheld and construction continued - around the clock if necessary - without further delay.

Next Case

Rumour is that View Talay are planning a law suit against the complainants from Jomtien Complex, seeking compensation for the damages caused by the delay in construction of View Talay 7 and legal costs incurred by View Talay. This would probably result in the complainants' concerns of losing ocean views from their apartments a moot point. They may lose all their assets in Thailand.

View Talay 7 Must Be Completed As Scheduled

Why should construction continue around the clock? Because View Talay entered into contracts with purchasers of condos in View Talay 7, and those contracts specify a completion date. Construction was halted for a few months. If completion is late, then View Talay will have a problem with it's own customers - this may result in compensation due to purchasers in View Talay 7 - and additional damages being passed on to the complainants from Jomtien Plaza.

Moral Of The Story

If you buy property - anywhere - perform as much research and due-diligence as possible. Get a written contract of sale, and seek legal advice. If a developer should at a later date build close to or in front of your property, then your argument is with the developer/seller of YOUR property and your legal advisor. YOUR developer/seller is the one that cheated you, not the new one.

Don't Throw Stones

To question the legality of the property next door, to accuse of corruption, is akin to a schoolboy hurt by another and then throwing stones at a neighbour's dog. Stones have a habit of coming back at you, and dogs bite back.

Is This As High As It Gets?

Had a coffee at Starbucks in South Pattaya yesterday, and then continued South to Jomtien to check progress of View Talay 7 construction.

View Talay 7 Reaches 4th Floor

They still have three cranes in operation, and 20-30 workers in view. Construction of View Talay 7 has now reached a height of four floors in the front section and similarly the south section at the rear. The north section at the rear is a little lower at a height of three floors.

Waiting For Judgement Day

I would estimate the height of the first floor at 4 metres, and the other floors at 3 metres. This would imply that they have built View Talay 7 to a height of approximately 13 metres in the front and south sections, and 10 metres in the north section. It will not be much longer until they reach the 14 metre limit. Judgement Day must come soon!

View Talay 6 Nearing Completion

On a somewhat happier note, construction of View Talay 6 is nearing completion and transfer of title for purchased units is expected next month. View Talay 6 is located on Pattaya Beach Road. See update here View Talay 6.

4 Floors Completed

I visited the View Talay 7 site again yesterday. Construction of VT7 is continuing, with three cranes in operation. The building has reached a height of four floors in the front section. For the rear "wings", the South Wing has reached a height of three floors, and the North Wing two floors.

We Give Money Back, No Problem...

I also visited the View Talay sales office and was told that they are continuing construction of View Talay 7 pending dismissal of the complaint from Jomtien Complex owners. View Talay sales staff expressed confidence that the court will make a final decision by November and give them the green light to continue build all 27 floors. However, in the event that the court finds against them they told me that they would "give money back, no problem". Time will tell.

Construction Continues

The Supreme Court of Thailand has decreed that the Administrative Court in Ranong was unreasonable in ordering View Talay to halt construction of View Talay Project 7 since the issue of contention is whether View Talay Project 7 will be allowed to build above 14 metres.

Accordingly, the Supreme Court has issued an order to amend the order of the Administrative Court, and allow View Talay to continue construction of View Talay 7 until they reach a height of 14 metres. This appears to be a temporary reprieve, with permission to build above a height of 14 metres pending further judgement(s).

Consequently, View Talay has restarted construction of View Talay 7. For the main section at the front they have currently completed external structure for the first, second, and third floors. Steel reinforcement has been installed for the next two floors. For the "wings" at the rear they are currently one floor lower.

We estimate that they have reached a height above ground level of approximately 10 metres with concrete, and 16 metres with rebar.

What is View Talay 7?

View Talay is the name of a series of condominium buildings in Pattaya and Jomtien, Thailand. "Talay" is the Thai word for "beach", thus the name means "view beach" in English.

View Talay 7

View Talay 7 is presently under construction. Located on Thappraya Road, at the beginning of Jomtien beach, this project is truly beach-front with uninterrupted sea views. The View Talay 7 building is designed in a tripod shape with a large swimming pool and poolside restaurant in front. Unfortunately, there have been some complaints from unit owners in Jomtien Complex located behind the development. They are disappointed that they will lose their sea views. Hearings on this subject have resulted in some construction delays, but all permits are in place and completion is still expected on-time in 2010.